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Ambition, Discipline, and a Losing Week in the Markets
06/06/2013 11:00 am EST
Rob Booker speaks with veteran trader Jared Johnson, the CEO, founder, and president of Day Traders FX.com about his losing week of trading, and he asks Jared how he deals with a losing week in the markets. Rob also asks how big a loss Jared would have to suffer before he’d feel some trepidation about sharing the bad news with his wife. Rob and Jared then discuss whether you can you learn anything from a winning trade, and they wonder how much you can really learn from losing trades. They also have a discussion about the relationship between ambition and discipline.
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Rob Booker: Jared Johnson, how are you?
Jared Johnson: Yes. I am doing well. How are you doing, Rob?
Rob Booker: I’m all right. I had a losing week. I lost money this week. I am not happy about that.
Jared Johnson: You know, it is hard to go into. I have always felt in trading, it is hard to go into a weekend with a losing week. You just feel like dang it, you know. It drags on the weekend a little bit.
Rob Booker: Oh yeah, right, right. It is the weekend; I am just going to go kill myself now.
Jared Johnson: Remember, stay on the ground floor wherever you are. No 3rd or 4th or 5th floor stuff.
Rob Booker: No balconies.
Jared Johnson: That is right.
Rob Booker: I lost like 5.5%. Is that a big loss for you? Would that be a big loss for you in your trading account for the week?
Jared Johnson: Um, 5.5%, no. I feel like that is a pretty easy comeback.
Rob Booker: Oh, I am so happy to hear that.
Jared Johnson: Yeah. I start getting to the 6% and that is where we start getting into trouble. I feel like this is day trading and I feel like if we are buying stocks, maybe that is a bad day, bad week to be down 5%, but day trading, you are up 5% one day, you are down 5% the next day, so that is not the worst.
Rob Booker: I am speaking to Jared Johnson. He is the CEO, founder, and president; I think you are also the only employee.
Jared Johnson: I am also the secretary of Day Traders FX.
Rob Booker: Also, the receptionist. At DayTradersFX.com, you can get more information about Jared and his trading room there. At what percentage loss does your wife come in to you and say okay this, or do you not reach that point? Do you have such a relationship where you know that this is, because you are a provider of your family and you are trading for a living, so this is a big deal? Is there an amount of money that you would be embarrassed to tell your wife that you lost?
Jared Johnson: Yes, yes. My wife actually asked me the other day. She goes, why don’t you talk to me more about your day-to-day work stuff, and I said because I love you.
Rob Booker: Hell no. Oh man, like wow.
Jared Johnson: Trading, man, it is a wild animal, for sure, but all she needs to know is that if she goes to Lululemon and the card is accepted, then she loves me and everything is fine and we had a good week trading but there have been some amounts out there that I have hesitated to tell her. I have and she has thought are we going to be okay? I said “yeah we will be fine.” It is not the first time.
Rob Booker: It is not the first time and it won’t be the last time. That sounds like one of those questions, Jason, where it could be either person but we will just use it. I hate sexism so let’s just say that is one of those questions like the man comes home from the auto parts store, to give a completely ridiculous example, and then the wife says how much did you spend at the auto parts store. You don’t ask that question if you aren’t already looking for a fight.
Jared Johnson: Yeah.
Rob Booker: I can imagine, Jared, so what movie are you going to go see this weekend?
Jared Johnson: I have actually had that question before.
Rob Booker: Oh, that is so great. I would love for someone to ask me all of those questions. I would love to come home and someone say; you see I don’t spend any money and I don’t do anything disgusting. I have to get some disgusting habits. Jared, that is why we have you on the show today.
NEXT PAGE: How Do You Deal with a Losing Streak?|pagebreak|
Jared Johnson: I am here to help with the disgusting side of things.
Rob Booker: I am really happy to be talking to you, Jared. Once again, Jared is the head trader at DayTradersFX.com. You can get more information about Jared at that link. Jared is also doubling as a cyborg today. He has his headset that he wears so occasionally, you will hear Jared go so don’t, don’t, dear listener, dear listener, stay tuned, and if Jared’s microphone does that, just come along for the ride. It is not going to happen that often and we will get Jared’s microphone all straightened out.
It is actually my fault. It comes back on me, as a matter of fact, Jason, because I promised to send Jared a microphone. I tried to send it to his house but he lives in this secret location because his wife is a television personality, and so he lives in a secret location that Amazon is like, that is not an address. They are like, that is not an address. And if Amazon says that is not an address, you either live, a) with Dick Cheney, b) you live with Saddam Hussein in Boca Raton in a retirement community that is at an undisclosed address, or c) you are Jared Johnson and you are a highly...okay, so I have a lot of things that I have to talk about today but one of these things is I had breakfast this morning with a trader who I can’t even mention by name, Jason and Jared, and on the side, this is an ex-military guy, on the side, he flies, I kid you not, he flies to foreign countries and finalizes deals for gold, diamonds, and oil rights. How is that for something that you have to talk to your wife about when you come home. Speaking about things that your spouse doesn’t want to hear about, how about that, Jason?
Jason Pyles: Wow. It is amazing.
Rob Booker: Say, well I could be like so and so, this is a classic. For those of you out there that have a partner or are married, here is some advice from me, which I am sure you are really excited to get. Say things like this. These are the classic things that always get you in deeper trouble. Say things like well, I could be like so and so, and he flies to South America and does drug deals for a living. Is that what you want me to do? That always works really well. Like just before you have lost a lot of money and she says, hey Jared, how did you do today? You go, okay, so let’s just get all accusatory, I could be a drug runner you know.
Jared Johnson: Get off my back.
Rob Booker: How was your day today? Get off my back. When I lose money, every question is oh, so now we are just going to accuse me, and it is, no, I just wanted to know what color of shirt you were wearing today.
Jared Johnson: Don’t you feel like that is the common response of a trader. You have a bad day and your wife says how was your day, honey? What the hell is that supposed to mean? I mean, it was great, thanks for asking.
Rob Booker: We are such evil people. Traders are so terrible. I realized today as I was having breakfast that I have no problems. Louis CK, the comedian, calls them white people problems, something like that. I don’t know. I feel uncomfortable when I hear that kind of stuff. I was thinking, I don’t have any problems in my life worth getting upset about, including having a losing week in the market. What kind of things do you do, Jared, to recover? You don’t have many losing weeks, I am sure, but what do you do to recover?
Jared Johnson: It is tough, because as a trader, as we all know, we have losing weeks, we have losing days. I don’t know if I have a mental switch that I can just flip, but when the weekend comes, whether it was a losing week, a winning week, I close my computer, I forget about it. I just literally shut it off and I try to come back fresh on a Monday. Just take a couple of days to do, I try to do anything fun, anything that gets my mind off stuff, have a good time, and just try to come back fresh on Monday. Man, you carry that stuff over and it is bad news for the next week.
NEXT PAGE: Do You Learn More from Losing Trades?|pagebreak|
Rob Booker: Have you ever carried it over?
Jared Johnson: Yes, I have, and it has been bad news for the next week. It has been an expensive bad news for the next week. But, it is trading. I think you and I, Rob, have probably been trading around the same amount of time, 11 years, 12 years, right around there. I will tell you, man, the first probably five or six years, it was such an emotional rollercoaster. I think I have just evened it out now. People in my trading group, they always tell me, they always say you sound like a weather forecaster a little bit, I am just Mr. Calm all the time because that is all I can do. I have had too many days where I have been in the fetal position on the ground drooling on myself a little bit, and I have just thought, okay, I just have to even it out. Remember tomorrow is a new day, a fresh day, but yeah, it is always an exciting rollercoaster, this trading business.
Rob Booker: You can’t necessarily, Jason, turn a losing week into a winning week by trading a lot but you can turn a losing week into the last week you will ever trade by trading a lot.
Jason Pyles: Yeah.
Rob Booker: And you can really overdo it. What do you do, Jason, when you have like a really crappy podcast? Don’t use any examples from our show.
Jason Pyles: No. Yeah, I actually try to look at what went wrong, Rob, and try to learn from it, and then make the next week’s show better. I just redouble my efforts. I think I have heard you say that before, Rob. Isn’t it possible to learn from a losing week?
Rob Booker: You can learn a lot from a losing week. Are there things that you do, Jared? Do you keep a notebook? Do you keep a diary, like Dear Diary, with like princess pink ruffly things along the edges of it?
Jared Johnson: Hey, I have glittery stickers, don’t judge me. No, no, I absolutely do actually. I totally keep a trading journal and I have told a lot of people this in my trading group as well, that we really don’t learn much from winning trades. We learn that whatever we did was right, we made money, and we move on. We don’t even think about it really but it is the losing trades that we sit back. That is when I pull out the old trading journal, and I go back and look at the setups and try to see in hindsight if there were some things that I missed and compare them to my basic trade plan and see where I went wrong. I try to tighten that up for the next time.
Rob Booker: Some of this, it is more. Every time I hear someone say you can’t learn anything from a winning trade, you included, but we’re sitting here talking about it. I mean, isn’t that like saying I was just lucky, like this is all just a crapshoot so I am not going to learn anything from that. Obviously, that was pure luck and I was a speculator so let’s not go back. My brain just freezes when I think that. Of course, I look back on my life on the two or three things that I ever did right and that is probably twice as many as there really are, but I was thinking about this yesterday.
I don’t keep a trading notebook but I keep these notebooks just full of ideas and, Jason, you have recently seen some pages from that notebook, and I wonder can that actually, why do we keep saying that you can’t learn anything from. It is a platitude and, Jared, I am going to challenge you on it as your friend. Why can’t you learn anything from your winning trade?
Jared Johnson: So, just in my personal experience, I feel when I take a winning trade, I look at it for a second. I say great, I made money, awesome, and I don’t think about it. So, obviously, I am doing what I know I should be doing so I am reinforcing habits that I have already learned and practicing skills that I know to be successful, so that part is good, but I don’t feel like I ever think about a winning trade. I take a winning trade and I say awesome, that was great, and then I don’t think about it any more. It is the losing trades that I find myself pondering on. Sitting and staring at it, trying to figure out what I did wrong, why, and how I can fix it the next time, so maybe I am with you. Maybe it is wrong to say we don’t learn anything. I just don’t find myself sitting and thinking about winning trades as much as I do about the losing trades and how I can avoid doing that mistake again.
NEXT PAGE: What Motivates You?|pagebreak|
Rob Booker: Thank you, and I wonder if we are supposed to learn anything. All of this begs the question, Jason, should we be constantly learning how to do it better? I know that is maybe an elementary question. Maybe that doesn’t make any sense at all, but I am sitting here thinking to myself, how much are you really going to learn after the fifth losing trade from it? Aren’t these the same damn lessons over and over again? Don’t get, as a podcaster, don’t get a crappy microphone. Don’t book stupid people as guests. Also, don’t have, I don’t know. There are like three core lessons about trading. Make a trading system, make it work, and then don’t ride your losing trades. Step 3, don’t drink on weeknights.
Jason Pyles: Rob, this reminds me so much of that Jiro Dreams of Sushi documentary again because when I watch that, for those who aren’t familiar, it is the guy who has this master sushi restaurant in Japan and it is incredible and for however many years, 80 years, he has been trying to get better and better. I remember watching that and thinking why is he still trying to get better, why is he still trying to perfect it? Why do people do that? What is this drive for perfection and is it even possible, really?
Rob Booker: Yeah, I had a conversation with this guy who trades somewhat successfully and then also flies around the world finalizing these deals. Like I said, he is an ex-military guy and he finalizes these deals for millions of dollars of gold. It is so mindboggling to me. I was thinking to myself, there are three kinds of people. There is one kind of person who is I just need some money right now so that I can buy cigarettes and whiskey and hang out with my typewriter, like a Charles Bukowski or a very artistic personality or someone who just sort of lives on the road or whatever. The goal is to perpetuate whatever, the infinite loop. I just want to be in this infinite conversation with these interesting people and I don’t give a crap about how much money I have.
Then, there is another type of person who is the swindler/deal maker kind of person who may be a highly moral person or a highly immoral person or an amoral individual and all they want to do is do another deal. They just keep wanting to sell, and I have known some people like this in my life who had no morals. They just didn’t care. They just made deals. All day long, they just want to make another deal and it is not about, they just want to accumulate money, deals, and some people are immoral and they will sell things that don’t work or they will swindle people out of money. Then, there are just people who have really high morals but they just want to do lots of deals. They just can’t wait. They are just constantly selling. They are in constant salesperson mode.
Then, there a type of an individual who sort of wants to be a JP Morgan. They want to sit back and they want to have high standards, that is what they call them, not morals, but high standards and they just want to sit back and enjoy passive income from an empire that they have built. Number three is almost unavailable to most people but a lot of traders that I know, Jared, want to be number three from the get go. They want to have high standards. They don’t want to work a whole lot. They want to sit back and smoke cigars in a back room and have this huge passive income. They don’t want to be seen as the stressed out deal maker person, number two, and they can’t live like Charles Bukowski or sort of poverty-stricken bomber, number one, and I find that there is this constant tension. Also, Jason, for someone like you that is a podcaster, you have a family and you can’t just be a podcaster. You can’t just take your equipment and your microphone. You have this stress of having to fit yourself into category number two. I find this is a constant struggle for me too, Jared, and I want your advice. I am the person, I just don’t care enough anymore. I just don’t care. I don’t, the money or whatever, it just gets me to the next place were I talk to more traders. How do you keep the drive to keep going?
NEXT PAGE: How Do You Keep Your Motivation?|pagebreak|
Jared Johnson: That is a tricky question. I think, I mean doesn’t part of that have to do with, don’t adults go through, and particularly adult men, right. We have this early stage of wanting to attack everything and just conquer everything and then the next stage is, okay, I need a little freedom, but I still want to conquer the world. Then, you get to that stage of more freedom, less concerned with conquering the world kind of a thing.
Honestly, I wonder a little bit what has kept me going, and I am not totally sure what the answer is. I am glad we are talking about it because in the many years that I have been trading, most of the time, for the last several years, I have been putting in a minimum of 12 hours a day in front of my computer, whether I am trading, talking with group members about trades in my group, just trading, trading, trading. It is usually about 4 to 5 am to 5 pm every single day. For a good couple of years, I have been doing that now. It has been great but why I have continued to just go at it as hard as I have, I am not even sure what the drive is. To conquer my element, I guess, and try to lick the market, so to speak, but definitely, I am with you on this. I am feeling like I have peaked out as much as I can. I can’t keep going at that pace anymore and it is time to slow it down a little bit. I don’t know. I think it is probably the fact that, to me, the market is a challenge every single day and it is a new challenge. What is it going to give to us today and how are we going to deal with it? I think the challenge of it is what has kept me going this whole time probably.
Rob Booker: Is ambition overrated?
Jared Johnson: No, I don’t think so. I think ambition actually is hugely underrated. I know a lot of people, I have a lot of friends, family, and so on that, as you said, want to have that third position from the get go. Let’s do a few things and watch the money come in. The only thing that I have noticed is that you have to have crazy ambition and you have to practically kill yourself getting there so that you can get to that point of things start to come to you, at least that is what I have seen in my own experience, and so I think you really have to have crazy ambition just to get there in the first place.
Rob Booker: Jason, what do you think?
Jason Pyles: Yeah, you know, I think if you want any degree of successfulness in your life, whatever it is you are pursuing, whether it is trading or a hobby or whatever, I think that ambition needs to come into play. I think just as important as ambition, Rob, is discipline. I know that maybe that is a cliché thing but boy, the more I think about the things that I want to improve in and the older I get, the more I see that discipline plays a bigger part in my life.
Rob Booker: Tell me more about it. Expand on that because I want to know what is the difference between ambition and discipline for you.
Jason Pyles: Okay, for me, discipline really comes down to the ability to stick to something, to endure through it. There is a great scene in Rocky when he decides that he…
Rob Booker: I love that movie.
Jason Pyles: Oh, me too, brother. He decides he is going to get ready for that fight and it is 5 am, it is freezing cold. He gets up and he is really groggy. He puts those raw eggs and so he drinks those raw eggs and he goes out in the cold and slowly starts jogging. I am, man, that right there is the beginning of greatness and being able to do that over and over, having the discipline to do that is how you can achieve greatness eventually. The key is being able to keep it up.
Rob Booker: His goal was just to go the distance.
Jason Pyles: Right.
NEXT PAGE: What Is Ambition?|pagebreak|
Rob Booker: He didn’t even want to win that fight. He wanted to just last in that fight the whole time. The underlying theme of the Rocky movies is he didn’t get paid enough money. He is always broke. What the heck, man. What the heck. Like, where did it all go. Anyway, all of the fight, but then you look at modern day history. Floyd Mayweather is probably a couple of weeks away from bankruptcy. Okay, what about that for you, Jared? What is the relationship between ambition and discipline? Is one more important than the other for you?
Jared Johnson: You know, I have to agree with Jason a bit. I think they are hand-in-hand. I don’t know if you can have, I think ambition without discipline is totally, I actually personally know people that have ambition with no discipline and it seems to get them nowhere. You can be excited and motivated about nothing. I think the discipline is what steers that ambition so I think they are the same thing. I really don’t know the difference from the two of them.
Rob Booker: Well, there you have it.
Jared Johnson: It is a package deal, I am telling you.
Rob Booker: Well, that is probably. Was that true, Jason?
Jason Pyles: Well, here is the thing for me, and I am sorry I didn’t address the first part of your question. Ambition, I think, is that striving to obtain the next level and the only way you can do that is having discipline so you can’t have ambition without discipline but you can have discipline without ambition I think because you might want to be the person who just merely exercises every day and you don’t necessarily want to get stronger but you just want to stay fit and maintain the plateau.
Rob Booker: That is a brilliant comment. That is a totally brilliant comment. There are people. I remember in my younger years I would meet people who were very organized individuals. I don’t deal a lot like the regular work community anymore so I am sure there are people like this every day that go to work every day and don’t want to move up the chain at work and just do the same thing in the same way every day. They are not bad at what they do but they don’t have any ambition. They just want to do the same. There is nothing wrong with that. That actually seems pretty cool. There is something about that I admire and then again I get on a podcast with someone like Jared and, Jared, you have goals, right. You set goals.
Jared Johnson: Yeah, yeah. I have my daily, weekly, and monthly goals that I want to achieve, you know pip-wise, profits, and so on, things that I want to do in the group, and then I have the big goals, the things that I want to have done in five years with my career, 10 years, and everyday is a fight towards those.
Rob Booker: Yeah, I got to get some of those.
Jared Johnson: Those sound amazing.
Rob Booker: I go through periods of time where I just do things and Jason knows this, and I want to do a podcast sometime. We did a podcast just a couple of days ago about just stop asking for advice, just do whatever you want, and I was thinking, Jason, about having a podcast about not how to get what you want but just how to do what you want. So much of my life has been not really setting goals, just doing what I want, and that has its pluses and minuses. One of the pluses is that you don’t set a goal to do something, you just go do it. That sounds really ridiculous but my friend who is out doing these deals in gold and diamonds, he just said I just decided that is what I wanted to do. My friend called me and I decided that is what I wanted to do. He didn’t say, well, how do you get what you want and it is more like almost everything that you could possibly imagine ever wanting is available. It is for sale, almost everything, just every single thing that you could possibly imagine wanting. The problem is for most people is that, and myself included, we just don’t do things that lead to that kind of stuff and so Jared sets a goal about profits that he wants to make and then you get up in the morning and you do it. You have discipline toward that thing.
NEXT PAGE: What Is Discipline?|pagebreak|
I think sometimes, Jason, there is a big difference between wishing and doing. There is a big difference between setting a goal and the discipline. I love what you say because, if you take a disciplined person and you give them ambition, the sky is the limit. You give an undisciplined person ambition and they could maybe get something done, maybe, maybe if they are lucky. It is very difficult to teach an ambitious person discipline. It is very difficult to put discipline into someone in their later years of life. You have to have something extraordinary happen to you to change you from the inside out and I think the lack of discipline oftentimes has a lot less to do with did your parents make you wash the car or other things like that and how much frightening stuff have you gone through. How willing are you to do something that you have never done before because getting what you want, it is a really cheesy self-help way of describing it, and I look at you, Jason, as you want to do a podcast, you do a podcast. You just do it. You don’t say my goal is to do a podcast. It just sounds dumb because you know that it is available. I think that way about traders oftentimes, who set lots and lots of trading-related goals but don’t really achieve them, the problem isn’t that they don’t set good goals, and maybe the solution would be to stop the ambition part of it and go back to the disciplined part of it, Jared, but stop telling me what you are going to do one day. Just tell me what you already are doing. Tell me about your routine or your day. Tell me about your day. Don’t tell me about your goals. I don’t give a crap how much money your spreadsheet says you want to make. I don’t care. I am not motivated by that and I don’t know what the difference is, and the reason you don’t have it right now is that you don’t get up in the morning or you don’t care enough about the routine that when it comes down to drinking the eggs in the morning, Jared, many of us just don’t actually really want to do that work.
Jared Johnson: You know, trading is really exactly that. It is that discipline. When my alarm clock goes off at 3:45 in the morning and I think to myself, this morning I am sleeping in, that is it, I am not getting up, but I never do. I always get up and you always do it. I had a trading partner one time, we co-traded an account, and the guy wouldn’t show up half of the time. I would be there at 4 o’clock in the morning trading and he was nowhere to be found. Two hours later, he would say I’m sorry, sorry, I just couldn’t get up. I didn’t hear my alarm clock. I don’t understand the question, like you really just have to put it out there and you have to do that tough stuff. It is not easy all the time but I don’t know any other way around it, you know.
Rob Booker: I think a lot of listeners will find what, Jared, you said and, Jason, what you said, I think they are going to find that really helpful. I also wonder if Jared and I, I’ve been having this in the back of my mind about you and I co-trading. It is interesting you bring up people that don’t get up on time, so maybe you don’t want to be my trading partner. I have been thinking about maybe trading together a small account for a couple of weeks. This is totally unrelated but I need something to happen that re-excites me about the markets again in this choppy phase that we are going through right now. Would you be willing if we put some money into a trading account together, would you be willing to maybe raise some money for charity or trade for charity, not even charity. We could just give it to a stripper or something like that. Would you be willing?
Jared Johnson: Well, now that you say stripper, yeah, I’m willing, of course. Let’s do it.
Jason Pyles: Her name is Charity.
Rob Booker: You know what, actually now, this is beginning to excite me. What if we traded an account together and then gave the money away?
NEXT PAGE: Rob & Jared Trade for Charity|pagebreak|
Jared Johnson: I think that would be awesome, and just you saying that makes me excited because I have thought to myself too many times, you know, I am trading, I am chasing the almighty dollar. I feel like if we traded and tried to just go crazy on this account and gave it to charity, I feel like there would be some good purpose on the account. That sounds great to me, I’m in, I’m in, for sure.
Rob Booker: Are we still talking about a stripper or are we talking another world.
Jared Johnson: What charity, which one?
Rob Booker: Whose charity, whose charity, I don’t know.
Jared Johnson: It sounds nice.
Rob Booker: Jason, what do you think?
Jason Pyles: Oh, I love this idea. I am excited to see how that would turn out because, you know what, I don’t know if I could say this accurately, but I think so. It seems like you and Jared have some differences in your approach to trading and, because you are both veteran traders, I think it would be really interesting to see how that all washes out when you two get together.
Rob Booker: What if we don’t make any money?
Jason Pyles: Oh, well, that is a good question. We’ll just go out for ice cream, I guess.
Rob Booker: I guess, yeah, I mean that is the excitement of it, I guess also. Maybe we could raise some money for charity. We could look up, Jason, you could look up a charity, or our listeners, if you know of a good charity or a good cause that we could support, it cannot include you, personally, as a listener. If you have enough money to listen to the podcast, we assume that you can take care of yourself. I would like to be made aware of something in our community of traders that we could do for others and maybe we could just guarantee that a set amount will be donated at the end of the trading period and then the pressure is on Jared and I to maybe go through the process of trying to co-trade an account together. Actually, we could talk about all of the difficulties related to trying to trade as a team.
Jared Johnson: I think that sounds awesome. I think that would be great.
Rob Booker: As long as most of the pressure is on you, I feel pretty good about.
Jared Johnson: As long I am over here handling it all, and I will personally guarantee that Jason will pay any amounts that we are unable to make in this charity venture.
Jason Pyles: That’s right, oh yeah.
Rob Booker: I am going to move some money around and we’ll start with something small. Maybe we could involve a donation that comes from you and I. I am not talking about a giant amount of money, maybe a few hundred dollars to start, and then maybe we could raise some money from traders who listen to the podcast for an additional amount of money to put into that trading account, and then we could trade something and then donate the money to a cause recommended to us by our listeners. Maybe we could pick the top three causes, Jason, and split it amongst those. We are not going to make a gigantic difference. If it is an individual, maybe it might make a gigantic difference, but if you know of an individual that is in need or needs help or if you are listening to the podcast and there is a cause that you have supported for quite some time that you are aware of and you know how we could be involved. We are not talking about thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars but we are talking about maybe just thinking outside of ourselves and outside the box, and then approaching simultaneously some of the issues related to co-trading. Jared, would you be willing to podcast a few more times and talk about the difficulties in trying to mesh strategies and have conversations about the market and plan trades together, who has responsibility for taking the trades and managing the trades, setting the profit targets, who has authority to close a trade before it is done. Maybe we could talk about those issues.
Jared Johnson: Yeah, I think that would be awesome. I think that would be super, super great.